Good evening everybody I'm sultry Asian yeah this is great for my ego thanks very much I'm here to introduce our next speaker and I have to say that we have a fantastic team here at se Village but we wouldn't be a fantastic team without a fantastic leader this is Chris had Maggie the CEO of social engineer LLC and social engineer org he's author of three books social engineering the heart of human hacking unmasking the social engineer and fishing dark waters so he has had a lot of time in the business and a lot of experience in the business and he is here to talk to you tonight about special Jedi Mind Tricks he is a awesome when it comes to convincing people to do things that they shouldn't do so without further ado everybody Chris head naggy the best introduction of my life oh I only have five minutes left as of now okay oh actually I should probably start my own timer there we go okay so seven Jedi mind tricks to help you influence your target without a word so first of all I want to ask how many first-time deaf Conners holy mackerel really Wow Wow well I love you all that's amazing that's really crazy I never get that many hands okay so I want to start off just talking about what social engineering is before we get into actually using any kind of mind tricks right so I define social engineering as any act that influences a person to take an action that may or may not be in their best interest and I use a pretty broad definition which is way different than what you'll find online because what you'll find online a lot of times involves the word manipulation and that definitely is part of it but I think that's not always negative right now I know you're going to think I'm trying to se you but I really have a valid question how many guys in the room have daughters okay I do too as a matter of fact she's right here okay now and I swore I would never one bring her to Vegas and to bring her here to DEFCON but yet she's here how does that happen well there's all these different things we could talk about in psychology but and that's that she made a really valid argument that it was her right to come here and be with me and DEFCON supporting me and learning about the industry because this is what I want her to do with her life and how can she learn to do it if she's not here pretty valid argument right so solid reasoning mixed with all the emotions and feelings of her being my daughter and bam she's here there may or may not also be pictures on the internet of me wearing a pink scarf having my fingernails painted while drinking tea and I think any guy in the audience as a daughter can probably relate to said things things that we would never think we would do now if you study those very positive examples of social engineering and you'll learn how that works psychologically the bad are doing the same things right so I think from a security perspective and let's assume everyone in the room is here to learn how to do this for the good then we have to analyze how to use the principles of influence to become better communicators and social engineers so that way we can become better security professionals so I find this to be a very valid topic so what is influence and why is it so powerful well I like this definition of influence of trying to get someone to do something and make it their idea I thought I heard Hornsby and I was going to go nuts ok so trying to get someone to do something and make it their idea influence right different than manipulation when you get someone to do something that your idea I've heard other definitions like influence benefits both you and the target whereas manipulation only benefits you so we want to talk about influence because we want to talk about how to get people to want to do the things that you want to do and we can do a lot of talking about verbals and things like that but we're going to focus on things that you can practice everyday non-verbally that will help you become a better influencer here's the first one it's called a Duchenne smile now if you've never heard of of this guy he was a a French researcher named Duchenne the time people thought that you can't force you can't fake a real smile so Duchenne didn't think that way he thought well you can you can actually fake a real smile and he had an interesting way of proving it he drove around the French countryside and he got a prisoner out of prison and drilled a couple holes on the side of his face and suck a couple electrodes and those holes and shocked the crap out of him and the guess what the guy did he really smiled yeah that doesn't really make sense that he would really smile but he did he really smiled why well because he he triggered the ocularis orbit Alice I say that right Michele for once I did yes I win the ocularis orbital is nerve which is the the difference between a fake and a real smile fake smiles only engage the mouth real smiles engage the whole face and douche and prove that we can actually fake that right so we now call that two Duchenne smile what is the real smile now what's great is that the picture of him that you most commonly see there is no real smile on his face but he made this guy really smile just want to show you that once again there you go one more time okay now compare and contrast here's some really amazing pictures that Michelle helped me find on the Internet of the same people which side is the real smile right excellent right we could see that very clearly and what's amazing and we can't do this from this angle or I can't do it here on the screen but if you were to cover her mouth you could still tell she's smiling right based on her eyes if you were to cover her eyes you could definitely tell she's smiling whereas on the picture on the left she definitely looks happy when you see the whole face but not if you just cover let's say if you covered her mouth you would not see smiling in her eyes and vice versa so a real smile engages the whole face and you don't need the whole face to see that someone is happy so you could practice this well how do you practice this there's a couple different ways you can do that first what really helps is looking at pictures of people really smiling why does that work our brains like to mimic the things that we see we oftentimes mimic the facial expressions that we see if you ever had this experience you're walking down the street maybe you're walking past a restaurant and there's a glass being between your window and you see a group of people in the restaurant laughing and having a good time and what do you do you're doing what the majority of you are doing right now smiling thinking about it so you had that experience and it triggers an actual smile so when we see people who are laughing and smiling we tend to recreate those same facial expressions and the same emotions that go with it so one of the first things you can do is look at people that are really smile take a look at those pictures and then you can practice doing that and it's not too hard right you can practice getting your whole face involved in a smile and eventually it may not be natural few if that's not something you do but eventually after time practicing it it becomes more of a habit and you learn to do it now you have to be cautious at first when you're practicing I suggest practicing at home and a mirror with your family because if you're fake you start doing this and it looks like you're constipated and not smiling so you want to you know be cautious of your practice out in the in the wild so this real or fake real real or fake mmm very good class how about this good guys pass you know get certified in real smiles now this is an easy one but often what's interesting often times is that we we don't do it douwe we walk through our life we walk through the hallways you'll see this here at Def Con we are attached to our devices and we don't smile and why is that I don't really know the answer I'd like to know the answer but people tend to think that maybe I know in some cultures we were just my family and I were just in Russia and I learned something interesting about the culture there that smiling is considered a weakness and in some areas of Russia and if you smile they think you're up to something in your shady right so it's almost a coat in some cultures as a cultural thing we're smiling can make it seem weird so you want to be cautious with that because you don't want to be creepy right you only walk in by two you look a you know like you're just like hit some crack or something so you want to be cautious with how much you know you want to be weird-looking but you want to practice genuine smiles because as you guys just experienced looking at them even on a screen will trigger happy emotions in you and it will make people more compliant with your demands so if we can trigger happy emotions then we can trigger more compliancy here's number two the eyebrow flash I think I have a video to show you how this works oh yeah now what does that mean okay that was a little creepy see that was a no I was a creep yeah it sounded like let me tell you why I said oh yeah that sounded really maybe I should back up and redo that slide okay so these are what these are what are called conversational signals so without words if you were talking to someone and they were to do that they were to raise their eyebrows what did they just say to you okay so those are the emotions you're getting some emotions but imagine this surprised but also involve the mouth like right that would be more like surprise so very good but if someone is just talking if you're just conversing and you're saying something like oh yeah I went over to this talk and this guy was talking about emotions and it was okay you know it was not bad and they went like this what do they say what are they saying I'm sorry move I heard it I've heard so many answers okay keep talking skepticism interest okay all three of those are true right so it depending on the other parts of the face it could be yeah tell me more uninterested it can also be skepticism if it's maybe more of a downward motion with the eyebrows or it could be I'm interested in what you're saying so this is a conversational signal telling somebody that you want to hear more now think about this what does that tell the other person the talker the one who is sending out the message if you are telling them you are interested what does that say you're engaged excellent what else I heard some keep talking so I'm interested in you I'm listening active listening and I want you to tell me more how validating is that and the more you talk the less your targets are going to be compliant the more they talk the more compliant your targets will become so you can influence them by keeping them talking right and this is just a great principle of conversation whether you're doing it in social engineering or just doing it at home or just natural conversation so a really good one and Michelle did find me a male one just in case you know yeah and that's not creepy at all and oh I thought it worked better before okay now let's talk about the next one number three I was going to say this wrong you know this let's just let's reword that proxemics right anyone say that better than me okay no that's good I feel better so this is like our our space allowance what we closed in person I want to be like right now some of you are probably uncomfortable because of how close you are to each other but what determines how close people can get to you okay I heard some culture Society what else personal preference what please you stay here sir you in the white shirt gender okay let's smell that's DEFCON right there my friends interest you said context oh I like that so all of these are true statements right so also let me add some things to that the level of rapport that you feel with the person you are interacting with the relationship you have with them will determine the closeness including with culture and other things right so like in in Norway what is personal space tends to be a three foot radius that's personal space right yeah all right so but in Japan like there is no such thing as personal space if you can see light it's it's you're not you're too far away right so I mean that's it why is that well the cultures are different but rapport will also determine that for example imagine this you're standing here and a total stranger walks up to you and puts his hand on your stomach and starts to rub it yeah most you're not going to feel that way right most of you are going to feel the way you're all looking right now which is really uncomfortable that was like the awkward laugh like oh yeah it's weird and creepy okay why well you don't have a relationship with that person right there's no rapport there in trust so that's a really intimate area for someone to be able to come up and be that close to you but proxemics is learning how to use personal space right so here are some examples like a team it's okay to hug right now where's Dave Dave left he had to go of the meeting but I wanted him to hear this part is sometimes people don't want to be hugged long and awkwardly right sometimes people don't like long awkward hugs where there's heavy breathing on the neck and things like that's weird right now what allows for that well that's relationship right you can see the mom and daughter there that makes sense whereas if that same situation was on the bottom picture in the business setting it would look more like this creepy creepy yeah yeah if you ever see a on your targets if you ever see the face like that dog you know you're doing something wrong okay you're doing something wrong here so why is this important well I'll give you a personal example so I'm raised in New York City I'm raised in New York area I'm an Italian thank you New York yeah that's right so I'm raised Italian New York what does that mean about the level of touching in my family no you don't know nothing about Italians would lots of touching and slapping and pinching and hitting and hugging all sorts and my grandma walked up to me slap me in the face cursed at me and give me five bucks of it until my parents right this was the way it went you know this is the way you show the fixing your sewer from Kuhn slap you there's like God thank grandma I love you too you know there's a lot of personal touching right so because of that I don't have a problem I really don't have a problem with close proximity I don't have a problem with hugs don't have a problem with touching I don't have a problem with that but that doesn't mean that everyone else is the same so what do I have to learn if I'm going to be a good social engineer to be able to read those signs when people aren't comfortable right because it can make it can really break your chance to be influential it can break rapport if you are not aware of what your proximity is allowed and when you're in your interacting with your targets so you really have to learn these things and that takes some time so what does it mean well it's always best as err on the side of caution right when it comes to these things and not take liberties just because it's comfortable to you so when it comes to this particular one it's nice to to show that that you are aware of personal space and you're not you're not too creepy especially when it's cross-gender and I say this more so for guys to girls than girls to guys because guys right I mean if a girl gets really close was like swing you know I love it I don't care right I mean they can come up and like just be right next to you be like yes and if we do it we're creepers so you got to be aware of that okay you got to be aware of that and especially when it comes to cultural okay size is a thing too right I'm really tall so you got to be cautious because what happens to your targets if when you get close to them and they have ten act with you they're doing this this isn't comfortable is it it's intimidating exactly and it's uncomfortable to be to have to look up like this so you're going to ruin the ability to build rapport with your targets if they have to be uncomfortable while conversing with you so if you're dealing with the shorter person it's always best to stand back a little bit right to stand back so they can look at you even but not so far back that it looks odd because you don't want to be near them and some good tips there on that number four paralanguage these are things that are verbal but they're not right so something like a when you think of when you hear a sigh exasperation what else I'm sorry exhaustion good boredom okay so all of these are true and if you were standing there you hurt someone now in this room may not be the same because we're here for a purpose but if you're in public and you hear someone sigh whether you decide to ask what's wrong or not we start to think I wonder what's wrong with that person and if you're with a person who's who has empathy and compassion if you're in a public area and you sigh what will occur most times is they'll ask you what's wrong is everything okay what's wrong so a sigh is a great way to elicit a response from a person that you're looking to interact with right now you have to have a response that makes sense right so you know this is a part you got to follow up with because if you sigh and you ask people what if someone asks you what's wrong you got to have a good storyline and you can't you can't be like well you know when I was five my mom beat me that my dog died cuz people don't want to be that involved right now right they really don't I just asked you what's wrong so you want to have an answer that allows for a conversation and not like they're calling the hotline for your help you know what I mean so paralanguage can it will trigger an inquiry even if it's not right away and people will start to think I wonder what's wrong there you know if I should ask for help and if you're doing all those other parts right then it can help and also building that rapport and having people want to communicate with you oh here's a good one number five all right contact and this is super important right and now you know you got a really bounce this and this is a hard one for some people it really is especially us computer guys right we spent so much time with with technology like looking at another human is almost scary right so we really got to practice this one and we got to practice it right I've been with people like when they're practicing eye contact they stare at you and it's like like you almost feel like they want to hurt you you know they're like right yeah it's really scary don't do that yeah see so you got to be really careful with how intense your eye contact is and so you want to really practice that with people that know you and love you especially if it's a weakness of yours a great place to practice this is with your family with eye contact and learning to to look at people without being intently gazed upon them without looking psychotic or creepy it's a very powerful thing it's a very powerful form of influence if you make eye contact with people when you're communicating it says I actually care about you I'm looking at you I want to communicate with you as a person and it's very different than if I just kind of if you notice I just look over everyone's heads in the audience and I'm not really paying attention it's very different feel and how how personal this can be than making eye contact with people when you're speaking to them it really helps to build rapport am I going too fast I'm going too fast I need to slow down mom told me to slow down sorry hell no the haniss does I only have ten minutes left am I going too fast sorry guys okay well I'll slow down a little anyway because I'm probably and I'd naturally talk fast that's what happens so let me take a drink this will be a fake pause okay so back to eye contact and what's important about eye contact is also knowing when it could be outcome uncomfortable for the person you're interacting with right so if the person you're interacting with is nervous and not making eye contact you don't want to force it you want to be like hey right do you want to be really careful that you're also respecting your respecting them now from the older generation if you're dealing with older generations you always looked at people when you spoke to them right you always looked at them and my grandma would say you always look at people when they talk to you you never look away but so you have to also know culturally gender age what's acceptable and what's not probably one of the biggest ones non-sexual touch and it's important to understand what this means because human interacting and human interaction and touching is very powerful way to build rapport but only when it's done appropriately and non sexually so before we talked about proximity and how that works right and where the areas of the body that are acceptable to touch and not I mean some of them are very obvious we don't have to go into them but some of them may not be so obvious right like like the stomach or the lower back thighs anything like in this area these are unacceptable to touch on strangers right you don't just walk up to people and do that that's really weird right I wish dad was here for this because even with certain really close relationships it's inappropriate to touch areas you know in certain places because it doesn't build rapport doesn't make you feel comfortable it makes you feel uncomfortable and the shame to yourself anyhow so you got to be really careful with how you do that now why is this such a powerful thing if you can master this and and before we even talk about that let's talk about how you master it so this takes a lot of practice right knowing when it's appropriate and you'll notice too because sometimes when you're interacting with people they will tell you when it's okay because they will start doing it you ever have people you you you walk up to and you they right away put their hand on your shoulder right they're saying that's okay then for for you to reciprocate that or you ever talk with someone and they do the arm touch and do the arm touch right they touch you in the arm when they're talking to you that's that's acceptable form of non-sexual touch right because these are all okay places when it's done appropriately releases a coma called oxytocin in the brain and oxytocin is something that many people have research but one of the more current researchers is dr. Paul Zak he wrote a book called the moral molecule and it talks about oxytocin being the chemical that they've linked to the feeling of trust and we when we feel trust when we feel rapport oxytocin is released so this is a powerful thing because think about that if you can release oxytocin in your targets they feel trust and they feel it towards you and that's a really powerful thing to be able to do to two people you're trying to influence if they trust you and then you ask for something they're more likely to comply with the ask aren't they because you've built trust with them and you've done it chemically some things to know about oxytocin because I see some of you like writing it down or thinking about it if you search for oxytocin you will find that they sell oxytocin on Amazon it's not really oxytocin okay it's not it's more of like like a like an alcohol Tincher you know that's like mostly alcohol and then a little bit of something they're calling oxytocin and in the doc Paul Zak he says if you were actually trying to use that to build trust in people – I'll just buy this and put it in a girl's drink and she'll trust me but first of all you need to either inject it or they need to inhale it so unless you plan on bringing a pump and one and a half gallons to a bar and pumping it into a girl's nose it's not going to work to build trust yeah okay no you can't do it it's not not going to work you can't and I got a pump oh my god I have a liquid into a girl's nose what the bar that's not going to really build trust you can either sit here for a second funky Junction yeah just a minute more and you'll be trusting me you know so don't don't think that will work so online purchased oxytocin is not the way to go I say do it naturally by building trust through influence and and good emotions okay something else I know about oxytocin has a very short shelf life but it also stays with you the reason for it dr. Zach did a really cool study on oxytocin where they found out that once there was a relationship that the same release of oxytocin occurred even when they were interacting with the person through social media so you have a good relationship with your boyfriend/girlfriend husband/wife kids when you're when you're reacting with them on facebook Messenger or Twitter or whatever the same amount of oxytocin is getting released in your bloodstream than when you're sitting with them and person so pretty powerful so imagine this from a social engineering perspective if you could be the source of oxytocin or one of them for your targets then they'll interact they'll feel that way with you regardless if they're interacting with you in person or through email or phone and that's a really really powerful thing but one of the one of the great ways to release it is non-sexual touch I need it I need someone to come up here I need a demonstrator anyone okay you come up here I want to just show you one thing that you get some people do know yeah so first so no just get got though you do it that's not really done a horrible example but sometimes we do this when we greet people if you see people do this is a really great way to ruin rapport okay thank you give them a round of applause okay that is not a positive form of non-sexual touch okay because what you're saying is I'm in control and when a urine control doesn't build rapport so you want to build rapport with people let them be in control right so doing that if you know what I have to work on this myself that tends to be my natural habit is to kind of put a hand over the hand when I'm shaking so you really have to be aware of that how that makes some people feel very captive and it looks very captive like you're just trying to be the top guy or gal so be really cautious with that especially cross-gender we see this to be very common can I can I ask you okay come here another one that happens with between male and females when they shake hands upper arm grab you see this really do like hey I'm not letting go and told I say it's uncomfortable see hug her it's uncomfortable you see that's what she said and this was even a demonstration and it's uncomfortable so if you have the habit of doing that it's not a great form of non-sexual touch and you can see there was no intimate areas interacted with on either of our of our guests right that net that never occurred but it still makes people feel uncomfortable if you try to take control so be cautious with that if you do it but really work on the non-sexual touch which could be used good with humor so you make a joke it could be some touching or when you're just building rapport if they make a joke and you laugh sometimes it's okay to put a hand on his shoulder touch the the forearm something like that is a great area to release oxytocin and then last but not least is open ventral displays tell you Bill Clinton had this down pat he really did I mean he had this down pat he so ventral being the the open side the underside right so when you talk imagine this is commanding right so this is hey you're going to do this you're going to do this but this is inviting hey won't you come with me when you come with me and we'll go do this together so inviting or commanding which one would you rather be if you're saying commanding is going to be much harder for you to build rapport inviting works well and you can do this without any words you know so of course adding words makes more sense if you if I were to stand there for now we're going not going to really need too much any of you but when you mix it with words it says I trust you right any ventral side head tilts is another ventral display because it says I bear my neck to you so it makes it easy you're going to be careful with head tilts guys especially if you're not a natural head tilt ER and you try to tilt your head and it's too much this is the way you look and then you mix it with your psychotic eye contact and your smile and you get that okay that is not good no rapport has been built I've ruined every bounce of rapport with any of you in the room right now so you don't want to do that but you practice this okay you practice these things do you get the right it doesn't take a lot of head tilt right it's not it's not extreme it's really very slight amount of head tilt and you may have noticed I was doing it the whole time while I was up here with head tilt try to put on a really genuine smile and using open ventral and it says something about you as a person says I trust you I'm open I'm happy it's okay to be my friend and it really builds rapport very very very fast so how do you put this all together before we get the questions so this is one of the big things that comes up all the time as after you talk about these things people say well how do you practice this right what do you do with all of this so the best place to practice is that home it really is if you it with your family because you can you can be yourself with your family you can practice that you can screw up and they're still going to love you get your family right so it's okay to practice with your family and also what I find is family gatherings anytime that you have like a large gathering is a great time to start practice these practicing these things my when I started learning this my goal was to try to pick one and practice one at a time because you don't want to overdo it right if some of these may come naturally to you like it is it is more common that you'll see women be natural at head tilting women will also be better at the non-sexual touch than guys so if you're a female you're practicing these things you may have naturally be better at some of these genuine smiles you can for anyone can practice these right and see the effect notice that try to really pay attention what happens to the people you're interacting with when you try these things and you'll see your relationships are open up communications will open up and that's when you can start applying this to actual security and social engineering and this is a weird topic right for a security conference but when we do se pen testing like we actually get paid to break into places and I know a lot of people call that red teaming but I kind of think there's a difference because red teaming is like you're scaling the walls and picking locks and you know you're breaking in the dead of night our normal mo is to go into a company broad daylight right broad daylight middle a day we walk in and we have some pretext we're supposed to be there and I find that it works much better when you can use influence with your targets instead of manipulation they like you and then when you come back later on and tell them that you broke in and that you have to do education at this point you're not the bad guy that made them feel dirty and bad you know like they were scared or fear they feel good about having met you and that works so much better when you apply these principles and the side benefit as a security professionals if you can master these it just makes you have better relationships overall and it makes it easier just to be a human and then where is that guy that asked about well morality catch up with technology maybe I don't see it happening but I think that's something that we can all work on okay what do we have left good we got plenty of time for questions because that's usually what happens so sir kind of a question on the interplay between I yes as you get closer okay so the question was if you look at people are they less likely to let you get closer that another question I actually find that to be the opposite you know what's amazing is a two years ago or so we had Apollo Robbins Apollo Robbins was here him and I give a speech together and he actually taught me something really amazing about pickpocketing and and how he gets to do it and actually he uses eye contact because if you look at somebody it's very they will really rarely break the eye contact from you if you're not being creepy right and then you can direct them so if I were let's say if you were my target I were to walk up to you and I were to make eye contact with you you know I'm about to interact with you and then if I were to start off with excuse me can I ask you a quick question and I would here's my map I'm lost can you tell me where I'm at this I've just directed your focus to look at me then my map and now my hand can be anywhere right and I well that sounded really creepy but you you know what I meant and my hand is on your stomach rubbing it softly releasing oxytocin yes that's exactly what I meant I hope that answered it without too much creepiness yes ma'am yes okay so you know there's actually a research paper not and I can't say this about use I don't know you okay so I'm just going to give you some things I know because you look like you have a very friendly face and a warm face you have a wonderful smile yes thank you so she asked she said that's when she stands there like just alone people have told her she seems unapproachable so she asked if there's any advice to become more approachable here's something that often happens to many of us you hear about the study on RBF okay I don't have to say it right so resting bad face we'll just say that because there's kids in the room okay so what happens is and and where many of us may be guilty of this when you're in thought you make this face and what is this hmm oh yes but what is it what emotion yes I'm sorry not fear anger who said it raise your hand please excellent anger so you may not work you may not know everyone said something different but either way whatever people said it was a bad one so if we have that kind of thinking face people look at us and they go on approach something's bad right also certain nonverbals tend to be unapproachable and that makes me unapproachable right so I don't want to do this that makes me look like I'm now damaged but a lot of you know lowering the shoulders a little bit and and putting my hand in my pocket can say look I'm not you know got gesture so much – I've actually slap people walking by which I have I was gesturing and I'm like oh my god I'm so sorry so I've actually done that mistakingly you know so you have to be careful with body language if you making yourself like a wall think about in the animal kingdom when there's a fight about to occur what usually happens most animals make themselves bigger like gorillas put their chest out peacocks put their feathers out animals make themselves bigger before they're about to get aggressive so we make ourselves bigger we're basically saying I'm ready to be aggressive so try to make yourself a little smaller and I don't know if you do these things you know you're kind of small as it is so I don't know much much smaller you can be you'll be like a poke a ball right now I don't know you know so smiling would also work great yeah working on a genuine smile maybe a someone at the mic thank you and it's not on thanks Evan thanks really love you do you have any other examples of paralanguage in addition to psy yeah so sure you all feel bad for me now because I gotta have there are many examples well let me think about some okay because that is not something that's clear in my head and I don't want to give you a fake answer because I hate doing that any kind of audible distress signal so so what we're not talking about in paralanguage is something that will trigger an inquiry as to your well-being so people will go man right they just like kind of make noises like they're hurt sighing sniffling these things are indicators that something is not right and it could trigger a response from someone asking you what's wrong are they usually audible yes they're usually that usually they're audible so people can hear them yeah thank you you're welcome yes ma'am that works okay so the she added one hmm right right one actually has worked on me before right at the grocery store or standing in the line someone behind me goes hmm and I've turned to look that for me or was that something else right and and it does it brings a curiosity right do you want to know what was in him about yeah good one thank you excellent you're in actually asked me a question really you live with me um a lot of people have different by language like one thing for them can mean a totally different thing for another person even though maybe the exact same movement or audible noise so how can you tell the difference that's a good question and you see why I'm screwed right right you guys all see it right so but okay so well here's some good things unlike unlike micro expressions body language is not universal it is not okay there are cultural body language and hand signals and things like that like like how many of you when you were a kid this was got your nose right got your nose right has it got your nose game don't play got your nose on Turkey because this is the vulgar sign for female genitalia right so so you got a no cultural – good question because you've got to know culturally what body language means you know Michelle's from Japan and she says if you wanted if your parent was going to call a child they do it like this this is like come fight you know this is come here and this is a different story so you have to understand I think culturally what your body language is saying that's very important otherwise it can become offensive it can come off really offensive if you don't but I still think that there are certain things that tend to be and I don't want to use the word Universal because that's not the case with body language but that tend to be more standard you know things like the touching you have to understand culturally what's acceptable or not but there still are areas that are unacceptable touching in most cultures right the the private areas that you would not touch regardless of what culture and so I think it's just a matter of learning about the culture of the people that you're interacting with and then understanding what that may mean for them yes sir all the time are you kidding yeah so one of the one of the best things I've ever done in my life has learned how to read facial expressions but it's also one of the worst things I've ever done in my life because when you first start learning you feel like you have a superpower right because you see people's emotion and then you know what they're feeling but you know what but you don't know why right and it's something I've learned personally from dr. Ecklund just because I could see that you have it but let's say you showed anger I could say oh that's guys angry because he's a hat he hates my speech and he doesn't like me but maybe you have a bad back and you moved and you your back just twins a little bit that made you flash anger right or maybe you got a text message from someone you don't like and that's what made you show anger and it's really horrible to assume it's about me right so I can see the emotion but I can't I can't know why unless I do one thing and that's ask questions which it may not be appropriate to do Thank You Hannah so I think I've had it backfire often because I've misread someone's emotional content and then made assumptions and I understood why now I try to control that I've been working on that so it's but it does take some time all the way in the back yes you high sure so she asked about positive power language so audible noises that express emotion right so a laughter laughter right that tells people that you're having a good time doesn't it a gasp will tell people what says what yeah surprise or fear right one of those things so not that you would ever hear this the only like a grunting okay right yeah if you heard that you're probably just would run the other way you know because that guy's like deeming you a psychotic half-smile over a head tilt right yeah that's a bad one but the other two were good sir that's a great question it was about mirroring and mimicking body language so I actually love this this this question because in the in the late 80s early 90s we taught that not we but the psychologists salespeople they taught that mirroring was a was a really positive thing to do all the time but it can really backfire because if you mirror too much and you get caught what happens you ruined rapport and Trust right so what we say is is is notice the let's say the probably the person sitting or they relaxed are they tense and you can mimic to an extent but you don't want to mirror right so example if the person is is sitting with their arms crossed like this right maybe maybe you you cross what you know you cross one arm you know you were that or you just put your hand up like this that could be a similar expression of relaxation but you don't want to follow every movement because maybe there's a comfortable for you to so you sit like this but then you move a minute later and you do this and you scratch your head and not a scratch on my head and then you put your hand down I'll put my hand down but what happens eventually if you get caught it becomes like you're parroting and it ruins rapport so it can actually make it really bad tons of hands okay let's see yes little one so besides the generational issue that you were talking about with your grandmother and eye contact are there other aspects of age difference that come into play with nonverbal communication yes so the question was age difference though they come into play but non verbals and it certainly does doesn't it because depending on your age it will seem more or less appropriate to act or be a certain way like for example it would be highly inappropriate even if I can master non-sexual touch for me to walk up to let's say a 15 year old girl and do it right I mean imagine if that was your daughter and I'm now practicing rapport building with non-sexual touch on your 15 year old daughter I'm getting shivved right I mean it's not it's not it's not good doesn't matter if it works if it's psychology it doesn't matter I guess that it's bad don't do it right so definitely you have to be aware of all of those things your age your size your status who you are and who your target is because if you don't you can really mess up by using the wrong type of nonverbal so yes you must worry about that sir there's two let's go with the guy in the back then you know yeah so the question was how do you do this when you're not in person okay so you're right a lot of this is geared more towards in-person interaction with influence well through email and and voice chat and phone that's a whole different talk but I will give you one thing because there's a lot of steps to it that don't involve any of this but your your nonverbals do affect your voice especially when you're doing fishing right so if you smile it actually changes the tone in your voice as when you frown right if you actually play the part non-verbally so if I'm calling I'm supposed to be the IT guy and I know a lot then you sit up straight you puff your chest out there's a great social psychosocial psychologist Amy Kuti she has an amazing TED talk if you haven't seen it you should watch it she talks about power posing and how posing for two minutes and like the Wonder Woman pose before you go do something that you're nervous about doing yeah arms up in the air the different poses that that you see powerful people do doing that for just two minutes before you take part of the activity that's making you nervous will will feed your body with the proper chemicals and emotions to make you feel powerful basically you're a seeing yourself you're tricking yourself at the saying yes I am confident your brain doesn't catch up for a little while until it's over then it goes darn you Chris it really weren't confident that's what will happen I got the stage you'll be like I know you were faking and then I'll be exhausted back there on the floor dripping with sweat sir yeah dude stop oh yeah yeah so that's actually good I don't I don't have any great advice for you right now I'm going to think about it okay because I don't want to give you wrong advice but I think it's just a matter of recognizing your your target that you're speaking to and how they're interacting right like I don't feel right now that your eye contact is intense or inappropriate right I think what can be the worst is if you're making eye contact with people in your eyes wander and they're wondering if you're paying attention right so I think it's okay like you know the things to watch for our intent gazing or what do they call that like we're kind of daydreaming where you're not really looking at someone you're looking and looking through them and yeah like zoning out right so you kind of do you know really listening to you like that that could be dangerous so you want to watch out for that but like our interaction here I don't feel like you're overly intense at all well it's kind of nice actually I meant that in a good way I really did I really did yeah yeah I can't tell you why I'd have to see you standing in public and then I'll come up and talk to you you know some people have very friendly faces you ever noticed that they just their body language and their face just makes you look like I think I can trust you right and and that that's that could be good that can also be bad because you know Ted Bundy had that face so to say and be careful right so he asked the question about de-escalating if you get caught you're saying so if you get caught that's a really good question I don't have a great answer to because we rarely get caught and I know that sounds really horrible it's an arrogant answer and I don't mean it that way I'm trying to think about if I like so you're saying if someone were to say and I know your head Tilton just let me I guess I don't under maybe you can clarify it on okay okay so they're questioning your motive yeah yes yep yep a hundred percent so I think what you do with that so let's say you practice this you say I'm going to go into the building with a with a nice head tilt open ventral and a smile and the person you know doesn't fall for it right they're like wait what company you're from I don't have you on the record I think to continue doing that is going to make you seem a little weird no really I'm supposed to be here right so I think you have to change your you can't stick with it going but I'm building oxytocin and rapport right let me touch you you know so I think you I think well I can be really misconstrued but I think I think you have to I think you have to think about your proper emotion if you were the person that you're saying you are so if I'm the IT guy and I'm being stopped what would be the proper emotion well it may be anger but I obviously don't ever show anger in an engagement ever there's no place for it you're a security professional you're there to educate don't ever show anger but can you be a little irritated can you be like I don't know why I'm not in the list all I know is I got a call from Bob he told me to get my butt down here and fix this machine what do you want me to do I'm doing my job just like you right and kind of put it back on them but have the proper level of emotional response that's what I usually do you know no problem my rule on my company is you never break pretext never break it no matter what even when you get caught I got locked in a closet once I did I still never broke pretext what no no no we didn't play spin-the-bottle on the club I got locked in the closet by two security guards yeah that's a beautiful question can I have another hour there's there any way to protect yourself and being manipulated about these things to my out of time I have 31 seconds to answer your question go through the tunnel I don't I don't think so I think it's just being aware of what it feels like when this is working on you and then knowing if someone does this what their requests are and if they request the next request that comes is inappropriate to realize that you are being manipulated and not influenced right because being influenced necessarily isn't a bad thing you know it's not necessarily a bad thing if someone's trying to get you to do something that's not terribly bad but you want to know what it feels like when it's working against you in a bad way and then be able to stop it okay guys I'd love to answer more of your questions but we have another speaker thank you
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